AOK talk:Effects

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Contents 1 Article Size 2 Return To Top Of Page 3 Bolding of text 4 Change view 5 Healing like a hero 6 Capitolization

Article Size

I really don't think putting all the game effects on one page is a good idea, some of them will be very large articles in themselves when complete, especially when detailing tricks that are created with the effects, such as using patrol to slow units down. Instead, I think for pages like this we should keep the separate articles unless they are very small and can be described in a short paragraph on this page, and have a less detailed summary of them on here. Thoughts? Richard 01:20, 22 April 2006 (EDT)

That sounds like a good plan, but as I said in Talk:Conditions (AoK), I think tricks should have their own page. --DiGiT

Yes, I guess they should. The only thing I find confusing about that is what do we name a trick? Tricks don't really have specific names, unless given one which has been taken up by the community. If we do give them names, they may be hard to find, so we'll have to link them as much as possible. Richard 21:20, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

Just make sure they're all in a trick category. That way finding them will be easy. --DiGiT

Richard and DiGiT

I understand your concern for the article size, but it seems daunting when I think that we would create a short description for each Condition and Effect and then turn around and make a long detailed article on another page. Especially since we have conditions and effects for three games to cover and we have dynamic linking within a page. Anyway that is why I tried to keep the information I shared for each effect to fill a browser at 1024 X 728 Resolution. Still if you noticed I've separated the information into Description and Instruction and followed up with additional descriptions or instructions so we can create the separate pages if decided by moving the information to other pages.--Anastasia 20:46, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

I see your point, but I think there should only be a few effects and conditions that are deserving of their own page for just their descriptions. For example, I think we've said almost all there is to say about the Play Sound effect. As I've mentioned before, any tricks or specialities for an effect should have their own page anyway, especially since these tricks involve combinations of different ones. Anyway, we can mold things as we go, that's one of the best things about wiki. --DiGiT

The Play Sound and Change Object Name are at the size I think the articles need to cover the subjects. My concern was that we would describe the effect in one page and then instruct in another, so I think we are on the same page with this.--Anastasia 22:41, 29 May 2006 (CDT)

The ones I've done have been quite brief. In some cases I don't think there's much else to say but for e.g. Task Object there probably is. I thought better to get something up and others can add to as and when. Is that a reasonable approach? StephenR 12:10, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

We should make pages to tricks related to some effects. For example: the "Healing like a Hero" trick it's based on the Damage Object effect. So I don't see why we can't add a link for the aforementioned trick into the effect's description. I was working on conditions and I was going to mention newIdea's Invisibility Cloak. But there's also no article on it... sadly. Cesar

I think we need a rough guide for how long these sections should be before making a full article. What do you all think about 10 lines, give or take? Richard 20:41, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

I don't think there should be a limit for the sections, for some of them will take more than 10 lines. Yet, some of them will take less (sometimes a lot less) than 10... we could set a rough limit for the sections (i.e.: Effects, Conditions, etc), though, instead of limiting their subsections. Cesar

I think the sections of this article should have a set maximum length. Minimum length is should not be set, as some effects by their simplicity and lack of related tricks will fill only a few lines, while others could take up a couple of pages. This will result in an inconsistent variation in section length, a very long article, and redundancy in making separate articles for the more notable effects. For that reason I think we need at least a rough 'maximum length' for the sections of the article.

Similarly, we need a general guide for article length overall, including this article (which is why you see a red link at the top of the main artilce). Having said this, there will be exceptions, and where topics are very notable and deserve a lot of text to cover them fully, it will also be fine. For example the article on Scientology is very long, but it is a notable subject with a great deal of details and aspects to cover. For more info see the article length article from Wikipedia (which I haven't had time to read myself, yet). Richard 04:11, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

Return To Top Of Page

I see the article is coming along very well thanks to your contributions, Ana!

One little thing I don't like is the 'return to top of page' lines - though they can be useful for navigation, they also create quite a bit of clutter in the article. The main reason I think articles don't need them though is that most web browsers have a hotkey that takes you straight to the top of a page - e.g. the 'home' key in Firefox and IE. Readers can also use the 'back' key if they used the TOC to browse the subtopics from.

I hate to sound negative, I hope it didn't come across that way. The article should be a great guide to effects for AoK with some more contributions like these. Keep up the good work! Richard 18:34, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Hi Richard!

Most articles don't need them but for the ones like Effects and Conditions that have considerable contents lists I think they make navigation easier and the article more reader friendly. However, it will be easy enough for me to remove them, but I would like to leave them in Effects to get more opinions on them. I think one problem you are having with them could be my choice of 'back' phrase that is rather long, and also the fact that I placed them in pages that have no content yet. I think that is adding to your perception of clutter.

For my part I tried to add articles that were short but there is a lot to say about the effects, and what I ended up with was similar to Billy Bombar's article length for Display Instructions. I tried a short description and the information can't be made valuable enough. So, I think we need to compromise on article size that is a concern noted above.

[*laughs*] I guess what I really want you do do is compare the Effects (AoK) with 'return to top' navigation with the Conditions (AoK) and tell me which one looks and feels better. Anayway, if you really hate it feel free to edit it, or reiterate your sentiments after we get other opinions and I will remove them. Either way I'm not married to them, but if I don't leave them stand for now any first time impressions like yours will be lost and so will the easy comparison of the two format ideas. --Anastasia 20:32, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Personally, I prefer the article without the links. Users can always hit ctrl+home to go to the top of the page. --DiGiT

I understand what you mean, but this method can still be achieved at the touch of a button since the TOC is right at the top, and that's all the the links return the viewer to. I'd like to hear one more entry on the issue from someone else first though. Personally I think a help page for browsing would be quite useful, as many users won't be too familiar with their internet browser (and may even be using Internet Explorer :-) Richard 20:41, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

I'd rather go without it. We're doing just fine (IMO) at the Conditions page without them. Also, whenever I want to go to the top of the page, I hit "Home". Cesar

Alright, I'll take them out. It's good to have a discussion (and vote, if needed) to get a consensus on things before major changes are made - this is only a simple matter, but it sets a good precedent on more important matters. There hasn't been a lot of input, but the community is still small at this point, and 4 people have had a say in the matter.

This formatting rule should also apply to other articles as well. Richard 03:29, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

Bolding of text

Also to add my little thing I don't like is the bolding or use of bold font like in Display Instructions. For me that makes for a cluttered look, and the headings should be enough to provide distinction. As with Cesar's recent edits the word Kill Object in the Kill Object page is bolded why? This drawing attention to words is redundant, and visually distracting in my opinion. So, I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on that too. I also have made my first attempt to reach out to the community in regard to the Wiki at DGDN. I thought it was appropriate, and advantageous to explain about my personal position and the Tsuniversity going forward. --Anastasia 21:10, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

I agree about bolding Ana. Also, I noticed bullet points in one or two places. StephenR 12:04, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

I'll slow down on the bolding a little bit... As for the bullets, I didn't put them (I don't even know how to put bullets). Cesar

Just removed most of the boldings, except for a few I thought were necessary. If possible, could someone change the bolded words in "Place Foundation" into the links for the buildings (I couldn't find them)? Cesar

Change view

Questions about this specific effect: what does specifying a player other than one do? And, does anyone know roughly how big a change view can be before crashing? I know I can test it but I'm sure somebody will know off the top... StephenR 12:19, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

No idea... I think it's when you change from one side of the map to another... I think it depends on the size of the map. Cesar

Changing for the computer players would do nothing, but maybe in a multiplayer game it may work. Richard 04:24, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

Healing like a hero

I was working on "Change Object HP" and I realized there's no article on the "Healing like a Hero" trick. I'd add it, but I don't know who discovered it. Also, there's no mention of tricks such as The Invisible Tile (there's no "official" thread about it...) and The Invisibility Cloak. Cesar

EDIT: I've added a link into "Damage Object" that leads the user into the "Hero" page. However, I can't force the browser to go to the bottom of the page (where the "Heal like Hero" trick is).

You can add a link to a specific subtopic of a page using Hero#Making a unit heal like a hero Richard 20:41, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

Thanks. Fixed. Cesar

Capitolization

I've fixed the caps on this page, but somehow it got "de-fixed". Cesar

I think you're confusing this with Conditions (AoK). Great effort to fix the capitalization, by the way! Lucky thing we started work on naming conventions early, otherwise it would be chaos :-) Richard 02:39, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure I fixed both. In fact, if you check the recent changes page, you'll see that Effects was edited by me recently (thought I forgot to fill the "Summary" box). I can ensure what I did was to fix the caps... Cesar

Here's the diff in question. It looks like you just did it for 'See also' (which I often write 'See Also', same for 'External Links', which should be 'External links'). If you did anything else it must have been lost. Richard 04:26, 30 June 2006 (CDT)